tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3454886792905497494.post2779355186906825973..comments2023-11-11T20:51:41.088+00:00Comments on This estate we're in: Where is the CofE going? Economies, Mission, PresenceRevd Al Barretthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04007631614710782918noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3454886792905497494.post-72174770616305896552017-09-25T21:55:39.815+01:002017-09-25T21:55:39.815+01:00I think of the contrast between the hymn
'Tho...I think of the contrast between the hymn<br /><br />'Thou who was rich beyond all splendour<br />All for love's sake becamest poor.'<br /><br />and John V Taylor's Christmas Venite<br /><br />'... into these infant eyes<br />which offer openness only and the unfocusing<br />search for an anwering gaze. O recognise!<br />I am the undefeated heart of weakness.<br />Kneel to adore, bow down to pour your praise.<br />You cannot lie so low as I have always been.'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3454886792905497494.post-15869723978330218482017-09-25T20:33:14.168+01:002017-09-25T20:33:14.168+01:00I think the difference often arises from where you...I think the difference often arises from where you start. Many models of Kenosis are working within a metaphysical framework of the Divine giving up power or pouring out, in Ward's words, whereas the more praxis orientated ethical approaches (Coakley and Yoder) are concerned with the practice of Jesus in his ministry, death and resurrection rather than metaphysical speculation. The Philippians hymn looks different when framed in this way and becomes less metaphysical speculation and more of a call to practice -<br />in emptying and opening we are exalted through the gifts of the other in a mutual sharing - meeting and witnessing to the Divine through the process of relationship. Do we view Kenosis as a 'rescue plan' or as a a spiritual practice that opens us to participation in the Divine economy of right relationshipRay Gastonhttps://scmpress.hymnsam.co.uk/books/9780334054597/faith-hope-and-lovenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3454886792905497494.post-53615383729043435052017-09-25T18:07:22.428+01:002017-09-25T18:07:22.428+01:00Many thanks, Ray, this is a really helpful bit of ...Many thanks, Ray, this is a really helpful bit of clarification. The kind of kenosis you describe is indeed much closer to what I'm calling radical receptivity. It's partly out of my PhD research on Graham Ward that I use 'kenotic' to describe the second economy here - he describes much more of a one-way process, that starts in God, 'filling' the church, and 'outpouring' into the world. Although his theology is not exactly 'mainstream', I think that kind of idea permeates a lot of our thinking - both catholic (eucharistic) and evangelical ('sharing the gospel').Revd Al Barretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04007631614710782918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3454886792905497494.post-69716080023068571972017-09-22T12:48:38.191+01:002017-09-22T12:48:38.191+01:00I'll be interested to hear your reaction to my...I'll be interested to hear your reaction to my book Al. Your understanding of kenosis is different to the one I use that draws upon the work of missiologist Martha Fredericks and her models of mission in relation to other faiths. Kenosis in her understanding relates more strongly to your 'radical reception' model and what you term kenosis relates most clearly to her diakonia model. The connection between kenosis and what you call radical receptivity is clear in Yves Raguin's quote that follows<br /> 'Kenosis, then, places us in a state of receptivity. We develop an instinctive attitude of listening, trying to understand, letting ourselves be permeated with the atmosphere of our surroundings, passing beyond what is merely heard and seen to reach the personality of the people with whom we live, or those we may meet. In this way we learn to know others from within. (...) Kenosis, then, is the gateway to mutual understanding, and beyond this, to an intimate sharing that is the consummation of a relationship in union. (...) By dispossession of self we are able to absorb the amazing riches of others.' Your model of kenosis appears perhaps to relate to Anglican 19 th century models which I think fail to recognise the radically receptive nature of kenosis and are written largely from the perspective of unacknowledged privilege, Sarah Coakley's brilliant feminist critique of both this model and dismissals of kenosis based upon it, recognises the radically receptive nature of true kenosis by rooting it in prayer and silence. In relation to interfaith engagement kenosis has taken on it's truly radical meaning and provides a clear Christological root to a 'radically receptive' engagement and a powerful spiritually rooted practice drawing together contemplation and action. I fear that in linking it to what others would see as a more diakonia model you risk loosing a powerful<br />spiritual resource for what we both in different contexts seek - a radically new missiological understanding.Ray Gastonhttps://scmpress.hymnsam.co.uk/books/9780334054597/faith-hope-and-lovenoreply@blogger.com